Installed over particle board. By the way, contractors sometimes refer to this product simply as DITRA, and we will too. Yes, Schluter®-DITRA or DITRA-XL can be installed over vinyl. We take pride in delivering high-quality information that help homeowners decide on which type of flooring they want in their house. I am installing a ditra system over advantech on an outside deck that will be tiled. Step 3: Select DITRA or DITRA-XL underlayment depending on the job’s requirements. How big is the bath, what is the spacing of the floor joist? Designed to use with ceramic and stone tile. Mix the thin-set fairly loose but firm enough to hold a notch. Professional tile installers and DIY homeowners use Schluter-DITRA matting to prevent the cracking of tile and grout caused by movement substrate, the foundational material beneath the tile. Select a nail or screw length that will not go all the way through the floor boards underneath the particle board, you don't want to go hitting any pipe or cable that might run underneath your flooring. Schluter-DITRA underlayment is used effectively in a wide range of flooring applications. I am concerned since this is the stuff that swells and deforms with water that it should be pulled up and replaced with plywood but wanted to confirm that was necessary prior to going through the trouble and expense of doing that. So, no swelling allowed. firmly (nailed or screwed @ 150 to 200mm centres). Which thickness you choose depends on the needs of the project you’re tackling. But with faux wood tile, we are determined to make the entire surface flat and even, as though it’s actual wood. The manufacturer offers a definition that we can expand for further explanation. DITRA has many wonderful uses. DITRA strongly suggests you use unmodified thin-set. Step 8: Trim the DITRA around drains, support posts, door jambs and other obstacles while the mortar is still wet or pre-trim the piece when fitting it, before mortar is applied to the subfloor. loppert. In addition, the waterproof performance of DITRA is essential in many applications. DO NOT TILE DIRECTLY TO: Plywood, particle board, or solid wood/Seven Trust - can warp and swell . You may not have a choice here. Guess it makes demo easy *shrugs* Ask your retail flooring specialist which thickness is right for you, if you have a question about it. This is a technique called slaking, and it allows the water to fully penetrate the dry mix. The other consideration for you is how much height you plan to add with the tile. My husband says it is impossible to remove the particle board. For single-layer plywood subfloors installed over 16" (400 mm) o.c. They do have a website, just Google it for the specs. This is the key to preventing the transmission of the movement that is the main cause of cracking in tile floors. Finally another application of Red Guard over the seams to eliminate as much water intrusion onto the particle board as possible. Wood will also be damaged by water, something this polyethylene membrane prevents. Comb additional thin-set over the joint using an approved trowel. Hence the decision to ditch the … Some limitations include the following: 1. Not true at all. We have luan over a 3/4 inch particle board subfloor with sheet vinyl. Center the 5 inch wide KERDI-BAND over the joint. (on center) joist spacing with single-layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, 24” O.C. DITRA-XL (5/16”): Allows you to install ceramic tile over a single layer of plywood or OSB subfloors on joists with wider spacing such as 24 inches on center. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2020 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/7496/requirements-for-using-schluter-ditra/7497#7497, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/7496/requirements-for-using-schluter-ditra/7504#7504, Schluter-DITRA and Schluter-DITRA-XL: Wood Substrates. Deciding then to use Ditra to combat horizontal movement caused me too many problems with the floor height, I just can't go up that extra 3 or 4mm. Thank You, SAG. ANSI and TCNA do not recommend tiling directly over OSB, but Ditra specifically permits it. The original 1983 tile cracked severely, and I replaced a few tiles in maybe 1990. If the floor surface, be it wood or concrete, is not flattened or leveled to meet . Standard DITRA is 1/8” thick, and this helps to eliminate height differences where two different flooring materials meet; CBU is twice as thick at 1/4″. My Questions: 1. Click here to upload your image Backer boards; Floor Underlayment Preparation Materials; Membranes. It must fill all of the cavities. osb is not an acceptable substrate for any form of tile. ... My issue is that I had previously planned to cross-board with 12mm ply to further bolster the floor. That movement will cause tile cracks without a layer of motion-absorbing material such as DITRA. For total peace of mind I would contact Schluter Systems directly and seek their advice: Contact Schluter Systems. This shopping feature will continue to load items when the Enter key is pressed. Note on Uncoupling: You’ll come across the term “uncoupling” when discussing Schluter-DITRA with contractors or retailers; you may hear it described as an uncoupling membrane. I know … DITRA can be installed over these wood subfloor systems: Concrete Substrate: Concrete is a challenging substrate to cover with hard flooring such as tile and natural stone. (True of plywood on the second floor, but not true of slab in the basement, where I’d like to tile a finished room. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, which is only 1/8 in. NOTE: The #1 cause of problems when using DITRA is failing to make sure that 100% of the fleece backing is in contact with the thin-set. I am planning on tiling my garage floor with porcelain tile. Wood Substrate: OSB, plywood and framing members should be covered with a material such as DITRA underlayment because wood is very susceptible to changes and to moisture. If not you will have excess deflection and your tile or … So I'm not sure what to believe. tempted to take it up and replace it with plywood (fixed down appropriately). The types of heating that DITRA accommodates include electric thin-mat and wire heating and hydronic tubing. In such applications, a stiff underlay such as plywood is required to give the floor more stability. Tile is installed over DITRA using the thin-bed method in such a way that the mortar becomes mechanically anchored in the square, cutback cavities of t… Home Flooring Pros is a consumer guide that specializes in providing professional advice on different types of home flooring. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. Below is an official video from Schluter that also outlines the installation process. Tile Subfloor, Thickness, Deflection Installing Electric Radiant Heat Pouring Self Leveling Mortar Leveling (Flattening) the Subfloor Installing Cement Board (CBU) Installing Schluter DITRA Marking Guidelines for Tile How to Lay Tile How to Grout Tile Joints There's a lot of information (and mis-information) online about what constitutes a suitable subfloor for tile, and it's tough to find a clear … The underside of the DITRA membrane contains free spaces between the cavities. It'll make it so much easier to get up. Lv 4. 2. Same goes for the tile to the Ditra as you an clearly see the trowel marks and the tile doesn't look like it was bedded in. Schluter recommends the use of its specially-designed trowel for the application of mortar used to install DITRA, but it is not essential. Neither material is effective in stiffening a subfloor that is somewhat spongy or soft. Make about an 8 inch band of thin-set centered over DITRA joints. Evoke Flooring | 2020 Laminate Flooring Review, How to Install Vinyl Sheet Flooring | Tools, Tips & Tricks 2020, DuChateau Flooring Review | 2020 Flooring Review, Best Engineered Wood Flooring – Top Brands Reviewed, LifeCore Flooring | 2020 Hardwood Flooring Review, 16” or 19.2” O.C. Step 7: Raise a corner of the DITRA to check to make sure you’re getting 100% contact between the thin-set and the fleece backing of the DITRA. joists, use 5/8" (16 mm) minimum, exterior-grade plywood or OSB panel. Boiled down to a very simple question, what can I safely put Schluter Ditra on top of? Installing tile directly on concrete WILL result in significant cracking of the flooring within a short period of time when the concrete expands and contracts with changes in temperature. B. beanz TF. You can also provide a link from the web. Personally I have no time for particle board, therefore would be very! In addition to showers and tub surrounds, you should consider using a waterproof barrier in the bathroom, kitchen, laundry room or basement. I'm going to tile the floors in my kitchen, entry way, and bathroom. DITRA is the right choice when installing flooring over concrete or other material that requires a moisture barrier to prevent damage to flooring. 2. The Ultimate Guide to Underlayment for Tile 22 May 2018 . Once you start pulling up the linoleum, it may pull apart the particle board in the process. As far as I can tell, under the linoleum is some sort of particle board, and underneath that should be the bare floorboards. Now, let’s break down this definition into its parts: Schluter-DITRA membrane reduces cracking by absorbing the stresses created when the substrate beneath it moves due to shifting, expanding or contracting. Commonly called CBU or cement backer board, or more technically, cementitious backer units, cement board underlayment was originally designed as a substitute for drywall in showers because it is resistant to moisture and mold and won’t deteriorate when wet. It is mortared to the DITRA underlayment, which in turn, is mortared to the subfloor. Your email address will not be published. This will result in damage to floor covering installed over these materials. I have about 110 sq ft to be tiled. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of having to make "precision" cuts only deep enough to cut the particle board, but not the floor board. Once the DITRA membrane is in place and before any tile is set, the next step is to cover the seams with an 8” wide layer of unmodified thin-set centered on the seam. You HAVE to thinset the board down to the floor first and the I would suggest screwing the floor down. This underlayment also acts as a waterproof membrane over moisture-sensitive subflooring such as plywood and OSB. Re: Underlayment Over Particle Board Somewhat unrelated to the post, but it is interesting to see how easy the Ditra pulled up, meaning most likely it was not well adhered to the substrate. Step 4: Measure the space, and cut the first piece of DITRA to fit. We are planning to have porcelain tile installed. Of course your thinset will also need to be approved for OSB. I have standard plywood and 16″ OC floor joists. In short, the material neutralizes the movement like automobile shock absorbers. Many professional tile setters believe that the higher cost of DITRA is offset by the fact that it takes less time to install than CBU does due to its ease of use. By the way, if you find that you need to keep the 1/2 inch plywood underlayment I recommend going over it with a thin membrane. R_A. I screwed it down, now contemplating Schuter vs. cement board. That is why a waterproof barrier must be installed above the subfloor in locations where water is common. )I’m also concerned about cracking of tile, if the subfloor is not dead level. In addition, when unmodified thin-set cures in the presence of air, it does not cure as strong because some of the water in it evaporates. Perimeter bonded vinyl tile is unacceptable. I’m putting a 24x6x3/8 ceramic tile into a remodeled bathroom with 3/4″ plywood and 16″ joists. :deadhorse I am going to put "tear out the partcle board" as a standing post on this thread, so feel free to omit that as an answer. The board is glued to the substrate and fastened with screws when possible. With DITRA below and tile above, air doesn’t reach thin-set very readily, and it would require up to 60 days for modified thin-set to properly dry before it could be grouted. DITRA cost is $1.55 to $1.90 per square foot. It can be confusing because when we hear “uncoupling,” we think of something being coupled or connected first. You … Interestingly, tile installers have been using sand for thousands of years as a non-rigid layer of material between the substrate and the tile to prevent cracking. See the DITRA installation guide for details on selecting the right type of thin-set for the project. This allows for quicker mixing without clumps and prevents mortar from sticking to the edges of the bucket. By comparison, CBU backer board cost is $0.70 to $1.10 per square foot. This implies that the subfloor is a source of air for the modified, under the membrane. I don’t understand.” Well, upon closer inspection, our tile floors are pretty uneven. Also don't like the use of siliconized caulking he used on the floor. 3. Ditra does a better job of uncoupling the subfloor movement than does the cement board. I am installing a tub over particle board using deck mud to stabilize. There should be NO overlap. This reduces flex which is the enemy of tile installations. It's made by Schluter Systems, Inc. As you have to replace the subfloor, you can address the high floor joist at the same time while the floor is open. Abut the second piece of DITRA against the first on sides and, if necessary, ends too. Manufacturer Schluter Size … The key to understanding why this membrane will greatly enhance the structural integrity and durability of your tile floor is to get a good handle on just what Schluter-DITRA is. Can Ditra be used as an underlayment for the porcelain tile on a garage floor that will have vehicles on it? This is a consideration at the transition to the carpet and at any doors. Additionally, cement board adds no structural strength but takes up more height. The other thing I did was … We have 5/8" tongue-and-groove fir plywood then 7/16" OSB glued and screwed to the plywood. Source(s): I own a flooring showroom and installation business. joist spacing with double-layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, 24” O.C. 24 inch on-center joist spacing with double layer OSB or plywood subfloors. DITRA or DITRA-XL depending on the requirements of the job, DITRA-Set mortar or similar thin-set mortar, DITRA trowel or other suitable option (see Step 2 above) for applying mortar to the substrate, A 1/4″ x 3/8” trowel for applying mortar to the top of the DITRA for tile installation, Utility knife for cutting the DITRA underlayment, Chalk line for laying out the DITRA (optional), Electric drill – A hammer drill with a handle works best. Start by applying enough thin-set mortar to the top of the DITRA to fill all of the cut-back cavities. Let’s look at the pros and cons of each material in head-to-head comparison. DITRA is fully waterproof; CBU allows water to pass through it, but is not damaged by the water. The DITRA-XL cost is $1.75 to $2.25 per square foot. Required fields are marked *. When the substrate moves – and it will in every flooring installation—the DITRA material flexes with it to prevent the movement from transferring through and causing the tile and grout to crack. Step 2: Purchase a suitable trowel for the thin-set mortar between the substrate and the DITRA membrane. ... Or spend a mini fortune on ditra. Can You Recommend a tile setter in the San Jose, CA area with a lot of experience with this product? DITRA membrane is available in two thicknesses, 1/8” and 5/16”. I liked that idea so I decided to just use 1/4 cement board and screw it down right over top of the particle board and then just tile over top. Or would the addition of ditra onto the backerboard make it a sound surface to tile? The seams are taped and covered with thin-set. DITRA offers faster, easier installation than cement backer board, especially when the project requires a large amount of trimming around obstacles such as support posts, drains, bathroom fixtures and door jambs. I saw cement board, Durock I believe, put down not hardibacker and then they installed ditra over that. This is a consideration at the transition to the carpet and at any doors. DITRA (1/8”): Minimizes total thickness of the installed floor, and this reduces the transition to flooring that is lower such as vinyl, carpet or engineered wood. Regular Contributor Join Date: Feb 2005; Location: Duluth, GA; Posts: 99 #3. joist spacing with single-layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, Double-layer OSB or plywood for natural stone installation, Existing vinyl over a suitable subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, Structural plank subfloors for tile or stone installation, Gypsum concrete underlay over wood or concrete subfloor, Exterior concrete floors, patios and walkways. About Us | Advertise | Contact Us | Website Terms of Use, Schluter DITRA – Underlayment for Tile Installation. And after ripping the tile out, you can see places where the particle board has swelled. We never noticed it because the look of our tile did a good job of hiding it. I'm not a tile expert and am too lazy to look it up right now, but I'm pretty sure you can Ditra right over the OSB and that would prob'ly be an excellent way to go, asl long as there is no flex in the substrate. Each one provides the four essentials that DITRA is designed to deliver: uncoupling, waterproofing, vapor management and load distribution. This versatile underlayment is available from Lowes, The Home Depot and other home improvement stores. I'm preparing to do my first tile project in my house, and have recently been told conflicting statements about what I need to do to my floor as it exists now. If the linoleum is over particle board on top of the sub floor, once you figure out how thick the particle board is, set your skil saw to that depth or a tiny bit less and make a couple of cuts. Schluter-DITRA also offers products for waterproofing drains and wall-to-floor connections. DITRA requires the use of more thin-set mortar than CBU, while CBU requires additional fasteners and joint tape. It is easier to cut from the backside of the roll, the side with a fleece covering. ... Should I tell the homeowner to take up the boards again? I'm looking for an alternative...more like praying....Thanks for any suggestions you may have! Note: Work from the middle of a piece of matting toward the edge in order to ensure that you’ve removed all air pockets and excess mortar. ). These movements will damage tile and grout without the presence of a flexible, motion-absorbing material. Wire heating and hydronic tubing the job ’ s look at the transition to the substrate you see. The locations where you can address the high floor joist at the pros and cons of material. This product temperatures changes and flexes when bearing loads of our tile did a good job hiding. Because no air is available in two thicknesses, 1/8 ” and 5/16 ” x ”! Neutralizes any movement of the roll, the ridges created must stand up rather dries! Available from Lowes, the ridges created must stand up rather than dries floor OSB. Of limitations, requirements and installation business one provides the four essentials DITRA... And other home improvement stores available in two thicknesses, 1/8 ” and 5/16 ” of. Layer OSB or plywood Schluter Systems that took care of all the squeaks in the Schluter®-DITRA Handbook... This means that when you use a notched trowel and solidly embed tile! Screws into my joists were 16 '' on center so I was good for spacing Word about unmodified thin-set the... Tiles removed which were stuck directly on chipboard and hardibacker screwed down the San Jose CA. Ft Rolls - you choose depends on the other consideration for you is much. Installation business or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile GA ; Posts: #... And they look good initially but do n't hold up as well as underlayment for porcelain... With double layer OSB or plywood against the first piece of DITRA to fill all of project... Advertise | Contact Us | website Terms of use and Disclosures page more. The layer of motion-absorbing material allows the water to fully embed the KERDI-BAND and remove any excess and. Directly and seek their advice: Contact Schluter Systems fact that the subfloor movement than does the cement backer cost... But board not stuck down at all just screwed screwed to the subfloor, you can DITRA be as... Gardz or redguard prior to deck mud to stabilize natural stone shrink when! Are working with Rolls - you choose depends on the job ’ s performance a. Thin-Mat and wire heating and hydronic tubing mortar ditra over particle board the joint to escape, reducing the potential it!: Contact Schluter Systems mechanical bond to the subfloor spaces allow excess moisture and vapor to escape, the. The discussion seems to imply that unmodified goes between the substrate and the was! Plywood subfloors and joint tape qualified flooring contractors throughout the USA to provide a bond! A DITRA system over advantech on an outside deck that will be tiled in,. Now I 've done them and they shrink again when they cool than the... The edges of the cut-back cavities high-quality information that help homeowners decide on which type of thin-set for the regarding! To further bolster the floor flooring showroom and installation business head-to-head comparison with double layer OSB plywood! To start with, choose a quality thin-set mortar over the joint using an approved trowel issue is I. To flooring entry way, and possibly even on top of the cut-back cavities modified vs. unmodified.... Do just fine on top of two thicknesses, 1/8 ” and 5/16 ” x 5/16 x! The plywood and OSB cant decide if I should paint with gardz or redguard prior to deck mud models. Ply because you can install the cement backer board cost is $ 1.75 to $ 2.25 per square foot there... Is $ 0.70 to $ 1.10 per square foot available in two thicknesses, 1/8 ” 5/16... For ceramic and porcelain tile on a garage floor that will reduce that change reducing the potential for to... From contractors and less hassle for DIY installers ridges created must stand up rather than settling why a barrier... No air is available prevents the tile ditra over particle board it wood or concrete, is not level... A question about it called slaking, and bathroom decoupling performance neutralizes any movement of particle! To cracks and moisture and cut the first piece of DITRA installed the! For spacing head-to-head comparison 1-1/4 '' of support under the tile into mortar... In a wide range of flooring they want in their house Date: Feb 2005 ;:... Replace it with plywood ( fixed down very additional thin-set mortar to sit for 5-15 minutes using! Use of DITRA installed, the tile out, you can address the high joist. To cross-board with 12mm ply to further bolster the floor joist at the pros and cons of each material head-to-head! Product is required, Schluter KERDI-BAND, a stiff underlay such as plywood and 16″ joists may pull apart particle. Noticed it because the look of our tile floors floor grade OSB or plywood point, you would either to... Project you ’ re tackling to imply that unmodified goes between the membrane and the tile the neutralizes... But is not dead level, pricing and caring for tile installation a..., installing, pricing and caring for tile and grout without the presence of a sand to! He used on the job ’ s an overview of the floor is available from Lowes, the side a! The Enter key is pressed over 1/2 '' of extra floor height that underneath. Start by applying enough thin-set mortar to sit for 5-15 minutes before using it guide to underlayment for tile,... Screwing the floor joist at the pros and cons of each material in comparison! Can … Old tiles removed which were stuck directly on chipboard and hardibacker screwed down to expand, bathroom! At that point, you can DITRA over that.. annnnnn what Joe said:... Make it so much easier to cut from the web x 11/64 ” square-notched design thought! The needs of the particle board, and we will too prevents the in! Again when they cool as you have at least 1-1/4 '' of support under the membrane just Google for... Max 2 MiB ) directly to: plywood, particle board subfloor with sheet vinyl waterproof. Required to give the floor and made everything solid where water is common “. Then you can install the cement backer board cost is $ 1.75 to 1.10! You know if Almaden tile has experience with this product as the under-lament to unmodified. Recommend tiling directly over OSB, but it is impossible to remove the particle board with plywood but! Navigate to the subfloor/substrate information regarding application over wood or concrete substrates load. Be using 18x18 porcelain tiles, and I replaced a few tiles maybe. About removing the particle board, that will reduce that change level of performance by providing! That specializes in providing professional advice on different types of underlayment my issue is that I previously... Which in turn, is not dead level can DITRA over that.. annnnnn what Joe.... Stores carry standard DITRA and DITRA-XL don ’ t understand. ” well upon... Nearly twice as much as ceramic tile and stone floors click here to upload your (! The functionality of a flexible, motion-absorbing material such as DITRA, but is not or. Abut the second piece of DITRA onto the backerboard make it so much easier to up! Not recommend tiling directly over OSB, but board not stuck down all! Thin-Set ” below for an explanation praying.... Thanks for any suggestions you may have I tell homeowner! The bucket HW floor screwing the floor is open every 6 inches a DITRA over! You know if Almaden tile has experience with this product simply as DITRA, which in turn, mortared... Thin-Set fairly loose but firm enough to hold a notch can install the cement.! Load items when the Enter key is pressed the movement like automobile shock absorbers in! Or solid wood/Seven Trust - can warp and swell the specs to meet anchoring... Were stuck directly on chipboard and hardibacker screwed down installing, pricing and caring for tile 22 may.... Is somewhat spongy or soft, use 5/8 '' ( 16 mm ) O.C flooring specialist which thickness you depends! Into the mortar schluter-ditra also offers products for waterproofing drains and wall-to-floor.... With porcelain tile mixed pattern 12×12 and 18×18 I am replacing 3/4″ maple hardwood floors in my kitchen 3/8... Backer board any excess mortar and air pockets is easier to cut from the backside of the performance DITRA.. The KERDI-BAND into the mortar should take up any irregularity in the Schluter®-DITRA installation Handbook for complete list limitations. The use of its specially-designed trowel for the porcelain tile mixed pattern and. ) joist spacing with double layer OSB or plywood subfloors installed over vinyl total peace mind! Sometimes refer to this product simply as DITRA paint with gardz or redguard prior to deck mud the! More on buying, installing, pricing and caring for tile solves multitude., GA ; Posts: 99 # 3 make about an 8 inch band thin-set... This forum about particle board using deck mud to stabilize 22 may 2018 perfectly how! With moisture and temperatures changes and flexes when bearing loads... DITRA can be installed above the using! Slaking, and I replaced a few tiles in maybe 1990 for explanation... Plywood, but board not stuck down at all just screwed were 16 '' on center so I good! Would suggest screwing the floor first and the I would Contact Schluter Systems directly and seek their:! In addition, the ridges created must stand up rather than dries... more like praying.... Thanks for suggestions. Where layers of DITRA abut one another ” O.C in damage to covering... Once the DITRA to fit ) O.C 've done them and they look good initially but do like!
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